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Powell, D
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Posted: Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 04:12 am |
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Hey guys, I've been out and about with Piper, mainly just playing a lot of retrieve and doing some obedience training. I guess I'm trying to take it a little slower then some.
Piper loves to retrieve and shes doing pretty good. It's really surprised me how quick shes caught on. She watches good and goes straight to where it falls. When she doesn't see where it lands, she puts her nose on the ground and finds it rather quickly. Color me impressed.
The problem I'm having is what I would call lazy retrieve she's running quickly to the bumper and picking it up, then she proceeds to drop it 2 or 3 times on the way back. Now this does not happen every time... but it happens enough that I'm seeking some advice.
I don't know if she's teething? I've heard that is a cause of this. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
____________________
-david-
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Brady
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Posted: Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 12:59 pm |
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David,
I don't pretend to be any kind of expert at all, but I can let you know what has worked very well for me. First, I suspect your dog is teething. Our pups are about the same age. From what I've read, teething is at its prime between 4 1/2 and 7 months. The video I've used most (Training the Wildrose Way) suggested no retrieving during that time. It is also when they started teaching what I now know are some modified force fetch techniques, only without the toe or ear pinch. It's really force fetching without the "force," and it has worked well for me. I have toned even that down some, though, as I never had my dog on a bench. Here's how I corrected this "problem."
I would have my dog hold the bumper in his mouth, while stroking his head and repeating "hold" in a pleasant voice. If he looked like he was going to drop it, I would simply hold under his jaw and the back of his head while continuing to softly repeat the "hold" command. After 10-15 seconds, I would give the "drop" command and remove the bumper. My dog got this figured out in the first session after only a few minutes. Once he seemed to have it down. I placed it in his mouth and backed up, still repeating the "hold" command while he was in the "sit/stay" position. After 20-30 seconds I would remove the bumper with the "drop" command and praise him.
Once all of this was ingrained, I started correcting him when he would drop the bumper. Start with a simple "no" and replace the bumper, reinitiating the "hold" command. I sometimes added a mild shake of his scruff just to reinforce....but NEVER aggressively, just enough to let him know that was not what I wanted. A week of short sessions, and I bet your dog will be doing remarkably better.
I am sure the experts will weigh in...maybe my way is not the BEST way, but it's really paid off for me.
Hope it helps,
Brady
Last edited on Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 02:46 pm by Brady
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Aaron
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Posted: Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 04:25 pm |
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If you think your dog is teething, and this is why she is dropping the bumper, I suggest stopping the retrieving training.
We obviously can not discipline a dog for something that is not his fault (teething). However allowing the dog to drop the object could create a bad tendency. Give the retrieving a break and focus on obedience and or tracking for now.
Puppies have short attention spans and cannot take much pressure. I view retrieving training for pups as a game with laws. We play and have fun, but if you break the law, the game is over (at least for an hour or so). For example: your pup knows you want him to give the object to your hand. This is something you have always asked of him. He does this for a time, but on the 10th retrieve he spits it out at your feet. Pup, you have just told me that you do not want to play anymore, (game over). This can be applied to any undesirable behavior. The pup soon learns that the game has laws and if you want to keep playing you must follow the rules. Always stop playing the game wile the pup is craze for more. This is for young pups.
If you are consistent with your expectations from day one, you will make advance training just fine tuning.
Your dog is young, give her some time.
AaronLast edited on Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 04:50 pm by Aaron
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Brady
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Posted: Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 05:00 pm |
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I agree with Aaron. When the pup stops playing by the rules you set, stop. My dog LOVES retrieving. He will run up to me with something in his mouth and play growl until I take it and toss it for him. When he doesn't follow the rules, I immediately stop the game. Continuing to toss a bumper at this point just reinforces his wrong behavior.
Another thing that I have tried to do, though it's hard with 5 boys in the house, is to keep everyone else from "training" the dog without supervision. If you make the dog sit at heal until given a command, but your wife, friends, or kids just let her chase it the second you throw it and drop it at their feet, your dog will not know what the expectations are. Again, this is difficult because everyone else wants to play with the dog, but it will save you a lot of training headaches.
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Aaron
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Posted: Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 05:25 pm |
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Kids and Dogs go together like Peanut butter and Jelly. Wherever I have lived neighborhood kids have always flocked to our house because of the dogs. Especially when the kid finds out that he can tell a dog what to do and the dog actually listens. Boy o Boy, that is a big deal!
I used to worry that the kids would mess up the training. That is something to give attention to. Yet, kids can be a great aid to training if you train the kids.
1) Have the kids carry a scented bumper. Tell them to hide in the forest or a field. Send the dog to find them. Give the kids a treat to give the dog when he finds them.
2) Tie a fox hide to a rope and attach it to a kid. Tell the kid to run through the forest.
3) Tell the dog down. Have kids run around the dog whooping it up to get the dog to disobey.
You can use your imagination to fill in the blanks. The point is kids can be a great help. We are also teaching them a heritage.
Aaron
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Aaron
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Posted: Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 05:32 pm |
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David,
When your dog is finished teething, you probably need to teach the hold command (as Brady stated). Start with her favorite object.
Once she knows the command, you can have her hold an object and walk her at heel. This way you are in control of the situation and can correct a drop if it should happen.
AaronLast edited on Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 06:55 pm by Aaron
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Brady
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Posted: Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 09:04 pm |
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I am with you Aaron, kids are great with the dog. Heck, mine give the pup a good work out when I can't. They are also helpful when teaching skills at a distance, as they can hold his lead while I move away and give the commands. Wachtels are great family dogs. Mine hasn't met anyone he didn't like. My kids also do some "training" with the dog, but only when I am supervising, so as to keep him from being confused. A good example is the "sit" command. When I give it, I expect Caliber to sit and remain sitting until I give him the OK. The kids may tell him to sit then allow him to chase after them a second or two later. Having the same expectations every time makes it easier for the dog to know exactly what is expected, in my opinion.
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Aaron
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Posted: Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 09:23 pm |
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Brady,
When your boys get old enough to hunt by themselves, they are going to ware that dog out. He will probably be the happiest dog alive.
Aaron
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Brady
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Posted: Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 09:45 pm |
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Aaron wrote: Brady,
When your boys get old enough to hunt by themselves, they are going to ware that dog out. He will probably be the happiest dog alive.
Aaron
...and I'll be the happiest Dad alive  . I love to see those boys outside hunting.
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Powell, D
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Posted: Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 10:50 pm |
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Thanks for the replies everyone, I'm going to lay off of retrieving for a little while and focus on another area. It's really nice that you can ask a question and get answers over night. Great community
Thanks again
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-david-
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Brady
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Posted: Wed Feb 24th, 2010 01:21 am |
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David,
I would like to see some updated pics of your pup.
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Brady
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Posted: Thu Feb 25th, 2010 10:39 pm |
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David,
One other thing that I forgot to mention that may help. Use something that your dog REALLY likes to hold in her mouth. My dog loved it when I would toss a pheasant wing. I did a lot of the early training in the house because of the weather. It also limited distractions. Though you can't toss a bird wing very far it is easy (and not painful) for them to carry, and they usually love having it in their mouth. In fact, they don't want to give it up. This will help your dog want to hold onto it. Just call her back to you once she gets the bird wing, have her sit or heal at your side. Let her chew on it a bit at first. Then give a "drop" or "dead" command as you ease it out of her mouth. You may have a fight on your hands, getting it out  .
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Aaron
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Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 02:45 pm |
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Canvas bumpers seam to be more appealing to pups, apposed to plastic. Canvas is easier for them to hold on to. Also, having a variety of different retrieving object can keep pup interested longer. 3 canvas dummies, 1 rabbit skin wrapped dowel, 1 wing wrapped bumper, 1 deer antler, and a tennis ball, this is a good puppy retrieving kit. Start with the least interesting objects and move on down the line as the pup looses interest. I always end with some fun with the tennis ball. If the pup runs in the direction I have instructed, a tennis ball magically drops in front of him as he runs. If this becomes boring to the yungin, a drop or two of artificial sent can make everything new again.
I think Bill talked about the number of repetitions in a different post. That also has a bearing on a pup's concentration.
Aaron
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